How am I supposed to know which vowel combinations are secretly smuggled into one? Breaks me out of the flow every few lines. Made so much worse by the fact that every audio version is just some dude winging it, confidently blurting out 11, 13, 15 syllable lines for no reason. Please don't reply "skill issue" just because I'm sensitive to breaks in the rhythm of iambic pentameter
No.8211
Anonymous
2025-12-10 10:35:43
Paradise Lost
You have to read the original spelling, retard
>>8212
What's the syllable difference between Heav'n and Heaven?
What's the syllable difference between Heav'n and Heaven?
>>8213
When a word has an apostrophe in place of a vowel like "th'" or "Heav'n," you're supposed to compound that consonant with whatever's on the other side of the apostrophe. "Th'oblivious" has four syllables, and the first one is "tho." "Heav'n" is one syllable and the "vn" sound is a consonant cluster in this case, just like "rst" is a consonant cluster at the end of "first."
When a word has an apostrophe in place of a vowel like "th'" or "Heav'n," you're supposed to compound that consonant with whatever's on the other side of the apostrophe. "Th'oblivious" has four syllables, and the first one is "tho." "Heav'n" is one syllable and the "vn" sound is a consonant cluster in this case, just like "rst" is a consonant cluster at the end of "first."
>>8216
I get that's the function of an apostrophe, but it doesn't change the sound of "heaven", which in usual speech is already pronounced with a reduced schwa in the second vowel... simply being a consonant cluster doesn't automatically reduce it to one syllable instead of two. "rst" is one such case, but to my ears "vn" isn't one.
I get that's the function of an apostrophe, but it doesn't change the sound of "heaven", which in usual speech is already pronounced with a reduced schwa in the second vowel... simply being a consonant cluster doesn't automatically reduce it to one syllable instead of two. "rst" is one such case, but to my ears "vn" isn't one.
>>8217
I don't know what else to tell you. There is a difference that cashes out in pronunciation. You're reading it wrong.
I don't know what else to tell you. There is a difference that cashes out in pronunciation. You're reading it wrong.
No.8220
Anonymous
2025-12-10 22:37:54
>>8217
Maybe I should clarify that you're wrong about this:
>simply being a consonant cluster doesn't automatically reduce it to one syllable instead of two
Try pronouncing the consonants without vowels inserted between them. It's "first" not "firuuseeet"
Maybe I should clarify that you're wrong about this:
>simply being a consonant cluster doesn't automatically reduce it to one syllable instead of two
Try pronouncing the consonants without vowels inserted between them. It's "first" not "firuuseeet"
No.8234
Anonymous
2025-12-15 01:36:34
I was an English major and read a lot but I am so bad at scansion. Just a complete tin ear for meter. Is there like an exercise I could try? This wasn’t really a focus of my studies but I think it seriously blunts my ability to appreciate anything written in verse. I like Chaucer and Spenser and for some reason find them fairly easy but it takes me dozens of joyless rereadings of e.g. Shakespeare’s to even get a sense of what it sounds like. Poetry after maybe 1750 is easier but still the same kind of problem
>>8255
I think most people find older works difficult to scan. I also think that if you're trying to read Shakespeare in strict metre you're sort of missing the point. He usually used it as more of a loose yardstick than a framework and if you look up 'authentic' performances of his plays on YouTube you can see how it can be read quite naturalistically while still retaining some sense of the underlying musicality.
I think most people find older works difficult to scan. I also think that if you're trying to read Shakespeare in strict metre you're sort of missing the point. He usually used it as more of a loose yardstick than a framework and if you look up 'authentic' performances of his plays on YouTube you can see how it can be read quite naturalistically while still retaining some sense of the underlying musicality.
No.8259
Anonymous
2025-12-17 07:19:36
>>8217
Probably nonstandard, but I tend to pronounce ‘heav’n’ as ‘hen’ (maybe with a bit of an elongated e [hɛ:n]) - just as seven is elided to sen in sennight, and other v’s and consonants are also elided in their poetic forms: e’en, e’er, o’er, ta’en (taken). It does help.
Probably nonstandard, but I tend to pronounce ‘heav’n’ as ‘hen’ (maybe with a bit of an elongated e [hɛ:n]) - just as seven is elided to sen in sennight, and other v’s and consonants are also elided in their poetic forms: e’en, e’er, o’er, ta’en (taken). It does help.
No.8260
Anonymous
2025-12-17 10:01:31
No.8266
Anonymous
2025-12-18 00:23:01
>>8255
Meter in modern languages is intrinsically fucked because we inherited our theory of meter from classical languages that have medical properties we don't. This was a known problem in the Renaissance -- I think Gascoigne writes about this. To do meter "correctly" in English you'd have to tear up the language to phonetic brass tacks and rebuild something new.
Meter in modern languages is intrinsically fucked because we inherited our theory of meter from classical languages that have medical properties we don't. This was a known problem in the Renaissance -- I think Gascoigne writes about this. To do meter "correctly" in English you'd have to tear up the language to phonetic brass tacks and rebuild something new.