Petrarchive – Sinophile Thread

Free Tibet.

The future and past belong to China. What can you say? Their brief lagging period is a historical anomaly left by the shockwave of industrial capitalism spawning somewhere else. I’m happy I was born in the USA but I will be teaching my children Mandarin. I have a friend who moved over there after graduation and is doing fantastic

>10134
My family thinks I’m a massive China fan because of my strong preference for Chinese food

>10137
Birthrates anon, birthrates. The future belongs to the people of the Sahel

Oops, >>10142 was meant for >>10137

民弱國強，民強國弱，故有道之國，務在弱民。樸則強，淫則弱；弱則軌，淫則越志；弱則有用，越志則強。故曰：「以強去強1者弱，以弱去強者強。

I used to get high and watch Da Shan on Youtube

>>10215
Damn, I still understand Spanish apparently. I don't see the relationship with the thread though.

>>10216
"Likening-to-oneself" (shu), a Confucian concept a bit similar to the golden rule, as far as I understood it.

Quiz: Picrel exhibits a Confucian, Taoist, Legalist or Mohist thought?

>>10230
Nevermind, I forgot to hide the source lol.

Perhaps I should try this "Chinese literature" thing, after all.

It's been a couple of months since I started watching Chinese (Peking) opera. Since then, I've probably watched more than fifty. The first work I watched in full, 京剧: 贵妃醉酒, is a great way to start, although, in my case, it took several fragments to "get used to" this particular art form.

>>10436
Do you watch with subtitles or translations at hand, or are you just taking it all in as it is? I'm assuming you don't know Chinese, maybe you do, but isn't the Chinese they use in operas some archaic form? Do you have any recs?

Indeed, I am not fluent in Chinese by any means; and even if I knew modern Mandarin Chinese, my understanding is that it wouldn't be really useful for understanding the vocal performance, since, as you pointed out, it is a very structured art that employs archaic language.
I watch them with English subtitles (although without them you still get quite an experience). The yt channels "Clover" and "Nikhi Chau" have a great quantity of subbed works.
Regarding recommendations, it's hard to say, because subjectivity is an important factor: I encourage you to explore and see if you find something of your interest. But, overall, I'd say that The Drunken Concubine (贵妃醉酒), The Phoenix Returns (凤还巢), The Tale of the White Snake (白蛇传) and Farewell my Concubine (霸王别姬) are some of the most remarkable I've seen.

I'm personally obsessed with the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom. I don't know if this is orientalizing of me or what but it seems like all of protestant modernity wrapped into a little package. It's got:

* completely out-of-pocket biblical interpretation, including rewriting the Bible to justify ethnic hatred (of Manchus)

* an attempted social revolution, a revolt against cultural elites that is simultaneously a low-culture throwback and an abortive half-measure to leapfrog modernity

* restrictive lifestyle requirements engendering fascistic behaviors

* a principled but half-hearted attempt at world domination

* aesthetic politics -- all state officials required to dress up in opera outfits

>>10451
operas are like a song if you like the tune doesn't matter the lyrics

>>10470

The history is so huge and alien that I've always been intimidated to look into it. No interest in watching a video essay. One day I need to find a good 1000 page book on the subject and sit my white ass down

>>10484
I tried listening to a couple dozen hours on Chinese history once but was totally lost because the proper nouns just blur together.

Can a white boy learn perfect Mandrin to wow the Chinese or am I doomed because of my alphabet based language

>>11035
pinyin.info/readings/texts/moser.html

>>11035
I think it is feasible. I get the impression that learning East Asian languages is (relatively speaking) "solved", given the amount of guides and resources offered and continually updated by large, active online communities. I'm thinking of Japanese in particular, but I suppose important aspects of the language learning process overlap.

>>11039
Learning all major languages is 'solved' in the same way that learning general relativity or memorising the quran is solved. Doesn't make it easy.

I've heard that Japanese/Chinese languages are easier to learn by ear, that is, speaking and listening, rather than starting with Hanzi/Kanji at the same time as spoken language.

>>11042
Evidently, every learning process requires a certain amount of affort: this is particularly true for languages as "alien" as Chinese or Japanese. However, nowadays it is extremely easy to go to a site such as learnjapanese.moe, limit oneself to follow the steps prescribed and get to basic fluency relatively efficiently. I don't think every language learning enthusiast in the past could benefit from such a clear overview of the language learning process.

Bumping, because this is an interesting topic.

Found this CNN article about a supposed "internet hoax" that the Tang dynasty never existed: edition.cnn.com/2026/08/19/style/china-tang-dynasty-never-existed-hoax-intl-hnk

But it's almost impossible to parse because it's so heavily biased against the Chinese government to the point of distracting from the actual subject. Anyone have any insight on this? I assume it's less a hoax and more like "alternative history" or some similar thing? My Chinese history is admittedly not that great so sorry if this is an old or obvious trend in historical revisionism

I have never been curious about China, until now it's pretty cool

>>11857
What's this from?

>>11860
picrel
barely 1/5 through but it's great. I don't know nothing about china but it seems Spencers books are often recommended

>>10470
have you read God's Chinese Son: The Taiping Heavenly Kingdom of Hong Xiuquan? from same author as above.
I might read it, I never had any interest in China but I really like this guy's style. It gives you a really good picture of the past while still following a loose narrative and being rigorous citing sources. And he gives you poems and shit too

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gate_of_Heavenly_Peace_(film)
>The Gate of Heavenly Peace (Chinese: 天安门; pinyin: Tiānānmén) is a 1995 documentary film, produced by Richard Gordon and Carma Hinton, about the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989.
>The New York Times article also quoted from an interview that was used in The Gate of Heavenly Peace. On May 28, 1989, just days before the massacre, American journalist Philip Cunningham interviewed one of the student movement's leaders, Chai Ling. The documentary states that Chai indicated "the hidden strategy of the leadership group she dominated was to provoke the Government to use violence against the unarmed students. With statements [in the interview] like 'What we are actually hoping for is bloodshed' and 'Only when the square is awash with blood will the people of China open their eyes,' Ms. Chai denounced those students who sought to bring an end to the occupation of the square." (op. cit.) The May 28, 1989 interview was undertaken at Chai Ling's request. She then asked Cunningham to release it internationally as her political statement on the student movement. The Gate of Heavenly Peace makes extensive use of this interview (necessitated in part by Chai Ling's repeated refusal to be interviewed for the film).

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8555142/Wikileaks-no-bloodshed-inside-Tiananmen-Square-cables-claim.html

>>11866
Wow. You're telling me hundreds, minimum, per official CCP sources, were actually killed in a slightly different nearby place instead? This changes everything!

Idk much about this debate but I think precision is good

Anon, you do have a favorite Daodejing translation, right?